Page 73 line 1
A That makes you a target when you roll in that way. You’re trained not to pull up in front of a bad situation like that.
Q Wouldn’t the siren and lights announce your presence as law enforcement?
A Yes.
Q And most times, aren’t you required to announce your presence as law enforcement?
A What do you mean?
Q Well, when you’re trying to apprehend a suspect, it’s generally – unless you’re in lethal danger to announce your presence, we are the police. Correct?
A Yes, you do.
Q Because you were the lead car, I guess it was your decision to leave the vehicles where you left them?
A No, There was just a wide spot and that’s where we pulled off at. Deputy Kade said park right there.
Q Okay. So you were talking to Deputy Kade as you were parking?
A Yes
Q Was this over the radio?
A Yes
Q And he told you to park there?
A. He said let’s park right here and that was a wide spot so that’s where I assumed he was speaking of.
Q Okay. Had you ever met Robert Webb prior to this call?
A No
Q Do you know if Deputy Kade knew or met Robert Webb?
A I have no idea.
Q Distancewise, do you know about how far the house was when you were heading from your vehicles?
A A quarter of a mile, rough guess.
Q Did you go in front of the Webb home at any point?
A What do you mean, walking or anything?
Q I meant walking, yes.
A Yes.
Q Okay. Did you walk to the front door?
A We walked to the front gate
Q Okay
A It was padlocked shut.
Q Okay. Did you try to get through the gate?
A No, it was locked.
Q Well, how do you know it was locked if you didn’t try to go through it?
A There was a padlock on it and it was snapped shut.
Q Okay. So you had to shine the flashlight on it?
A Yes.
Q When did you first see Robert Webb?
A When we were two houses down from his, we could see him walking from his truck to the garage.
Q So you physically saw him from what distance?
A From 50 to 70 yards probably.
Q Okay. And you literally saw him walking back and forth from his truck to his garage?
A I could see his upper torso and his head. That’s all I can recall seeing.
Q Okay. You could see that above – was there anything parked in the driveway.
A Yeah. It was going above his hood. The front end of the truck was blocking the view.
Q And there was a truck in the driveway?
A Yes.
Q Were there any other objects in the driveway?
A Not that I recall.
Q Could you see any portion of the driveway from where you were two houses away when you saw Robert Webb?
A No.
Q Could you see what he was doing walking back and forth from his truck?
A No, just his upper torso and his head.
Q Was he carrying anything?
A I couldn’t see.
Q When next did you see Robert Webb?
A When we were in front of the house, his music stopped and he walked over to his truck and we could see his feet underneath the vehicle.
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Q You could see his feet?
A And his head through the window, somewhat, the silhouette of it.
Q Do you know why he approached his truck?
A I’m assuming because his music stopped playing.
Q Did you hear say anything?
A He said, What the hell.
Q Okay. Was that right after the music stopped?
A Yes
Q Okay. After you saw him at the truck, you could see his head and his feet, could you tell what he was doing?
A It looked like he was messing with the radio trying to get it to start working again.
Q Was he leaning inside of his truck?
A Yes
Q Did you see him at any other point prior to announcing your presence?
A No. He was just standing right there.
Q Okay. At this point, were you in front of the house looking over the gate?
A We were behind his truck.
Q You were behind his truck?
A Deputy Kade was looking at him head to toe and I was behind the bed of the truck.
Q Okay. Let’s back up. After you got done with the front of the house when you realized there was a padlock on the front gate, what did you do next?
A Well, we were standing there trying to think of what we were going to do and the music shut off and when it shut off, we figured that was a good time to approach him because we didn’t want to startle him with the music blaring and hearing.
Q Did you discuss how you were going to proceed with Deputy Kade?
A No. We just said we were going up Primrose Lane because where you have to go to get to his driveway.
Q Okay. Did you stop at any point to observe him through the trees?
A You could see him as we were walking between the house and his hedgerow.
Q Okay. Did you observe him for any period of time? How long did you observe him?
A Not long.
Q And what did you see him doing?
A He was messing with his radio.
Q Okay. Did you believe him to be armed at that time?
A Not at that time, no.
Q At what point did you approach him?
A When the music stopped, we went up Primrose Lane and we approached him then.
Q Okay. How did you approach him?
A Deputy Kade told him, Police, let’s see your hands.
Q Okay. Did you run up to his truck?
A No. We were standing in the road.
Q. You walked up to his truck?
A We were still in the road but we walked up to behind his truck. I was behind the truck and Deputy Kade was looking at him head to toe.
Q Okay. Was he facing you or facing away from you?
A He was facing across in front of me but I was behind the truck.
Q So if you were behind the truck and Deputy Kade could see him head to toe, would he have been facing Deputy Kade?
A No.
Q Okay. Where was he facing?
A He was facing to mine and Deputy Kade’s right. He wasn’t facing away but he was semi facing away from us.
Q So he was facing his truck?
A Yes, the inside of it.
Q Okay. Did you wait till he turned away before you approached him?
A That’s how he was standing the whole time.
Q Okay. So you didn’t turn away. You didn’t wait for him to do anything before you approached him?
A No
Q Okay. And you say that you approached him and you get to the truck. You can see how much of him?
A From his upper torso, the same as I could see from before.
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Q Okay Was he still leaning in the truck?
A He was more or less standing up at the door on the outside of the truck.
Q Okay. Was the door open?
A Yes.
Q Where was he with regard to the door?
A In-between the door and the cab of the truck.
Q And what happened after that?
A That’s when Deputy Kade told him, Police, let’s see your hands.
Q Okay. And Deputy Kade could see him from head to toe from where he was standing?
A Yes
Q About how far were you standing from Deputy Kade?
A I would say about 10 to 15 feet, roughly, I guess.
Q How far were you from, I guess, the rear
passengerside of the truck?
A Just a couple of feet.
Q Okay. And did you have your gun drawn at that time?
A Yes
Q At what point did you draw your gun?
A We had it out when we were approaching to confront him.
Q Okay. Did you have it out before you approached the front of the house?
A No.
Q Okay. So after you decided to approach him on Primrose, you took out your semiautomatic at some point?
A Yes.
Q Do you remember at what point?
A I think when we were walking up Primrose.
Q Okay. How did you approach him? Did you approach him with the weapon pointed towards him?
A Right before Deputy Kade announced our presence, that’s when I aimed.
Q Okay.
A Before he announced, Police, let’s see your hands.
Q How did Deputy Kade approach Robert Webb?
A The same way I did.
Q Okay. He was carrying a tactical shotgun at the time?
A Yes
Q Did he have the shotgun pointed in front of him?
A Right before he announced his presence, yes.
Q Okay. And how did he announce his presence?
A I believe it was, Police, let’s see your hands.
Q Okay. What happened after that? How did Robert Webb react?
A He turned around and he had something in his hands. I couldn’t tell what it was and he raised it up to his shoulder and it was an AK-47.
Q Okay. How did he turn around?
A I believe he turned to his left.
Q He turned to his left?
A That’s what I believe.
Q Okay. And that’s kind of confusing, show me how he turned. He was facing inside of his car, inside of his truck, and his door is to his left. So he turned to his left and aimed at you?
A That’s what I always believed.
Q Okay.
A But my memory is a little blurry on that.
Q And he had something in his hand?
A Yes.
Q And based on his posture. what did you believe him to have in his hand?
A I didn’t think about it because I was looking for a pistol because that’s what we were told he had.
Q Okay. And at that point, what? What happened after that?
A Within a second or two, that’s when he raised it to his shoulder to the firing position.
Q Okay. He raised his weapon to his right shoulder?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And what happened after he raised the weapon to his right shoulder?
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A That’s when Deputy Kade fired his shotgun and I fired my handgun.
Q Okay. Who fired first?
A Deputy Kade.
Q And what happened to Robert Webb after Deputy Kade fired?
A He stumbled back still holding the rifle in his hands.
Q Okay. Did he hit the door?
A I can’t recall that.
Q Okay. How many shots did Deputy Kade fire?
A Just one.
Q How many shots did you fire?
A Two, three total.
Q After Deputy Kade announced your presence, what parts of Robert Webb’s body could you see?
A I could see his upper torso and his head and his shoulders.
Q Did you say anything to announce your presence?
A No. That’d be too confusing, two people doing that.
Q Okay. Your first two shots were at Robert Webb as he was on the other side of his truck toward his torso?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Do you know whether or not both those bullets hit Robert Webb?
A I don’t know.
Q Okay. Your third shot, can you tell me about that?
A He fell to the ground after he was shot. I believe my bullet hit him when he was still standing. And he fell to the ground and started rolling and all I could see was his – I think it was his feet or something. I don’t remember what it was. But he was rolling on the other side like he was going to start shooting at our feet from under the vehicle and that’s when I fired one more shot and then I could see his hands after that shot was fired.
Q Okay. Did you have to drop to one knee to see under the truck?
A No.
Q Okay. You could see under based on your angle?
A I think at that time he was coming out from the side or something. I can’t recall that, I leaned to the left.
Q Okay. He approached to the rear of the vehicle?
A Now, what was that?
Q He approached to the rear of the vehicle? I’m trying to figure out where you were when you had your third shot under the truck?
A I was standing roughly right behind where the license plate is.
Q Okay. This might work. The third shot that went under the truck, did you fire it behind the rear tires or in front of the rear tires?
A I didn’t fire under the truck. It was on the outside of the truck.
Q Okay. So it wasn’t under the truck?
A No.
Q So he was on the ground?
A Yes.
Q You could see his whole body at that point?
A No
Q Okay. What parts of him could you see?
A I could just see his shoulder and it looked like he was still holding the rifle. Like, he was laying on his back and was going to start shooting towards his feet which would have hit my legs and Deputy Kade’s legs.
Q Okay. So you fired a third shot?
A Yes.
Q And after that, you saw his hands?
A Yes. And that’s when I stopped and Deputy Kade said he’s unarmed at that time, stop shooting.
Q Did he roll over and expose his hands somehow after you shot or—
A After I shot, he finished rolling and his hands were just in sight at that point in time.
Q And Deputy Kade told you he was unarmed?
A After I seen his hands, yes.
Q I guess Kade was a superior officer?
A Yes.
Q Did he order you to stop shooting or just tell you to stop shooting?
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A He was just letting me know in case I couldn’t see his hands were empty when they were resting.
Q You did observe Robert Webb and you actually saw his physical person when you were looking at him through the trees prior to the approach. Correct?
A I could see a silhouette of his face and I could see his legs out from under the vehicle.
Q Okay. Was there any lighting in the driveway of the Webb home?
A The streetlight above the garage, on the garage.
Q There’s a streetlight on the garage, like a dusk-til-dawn?
A I believe so.
Q Okay. Was that one of the halogen lights?
A I believe so.
Q Okay. Once you got to the driveway area, was that a well-lit area?
A Yes.
Q As you looked at him through the trees, you could see him. You could see the silhouette of his body under the light.
A Yes.
Q Okay. And he had no idea that you were there. Correct?
Mr. Williams: Objection. Calls for speculation.
A I don’t believe so.
Q Okay. Based on his actions, did you believe that he knew you were there?
A Probably not.
Q Was it dark where you were watching him?
A I believe there was another street-light down the road that lit up where I was.
Q Okay. Did you have cover where you were observing him?
A No.
Q There were no trees, nothing that you could stand behind?
A Not when I was observing him, no.
Q What stopped you from announcing your presence at that point to determine his intentions?
A We were too far away to see if he was armed or not.
Q Okay. From the time that you arrived in the neighborhood when you parked your vehicles to the time of the shooting, did you ever hear one shot go off?
A No.
Q Did Robert Webb ever fire a weapon?
A Not at us, no.
Q Not at you?
A No.
Q I guess I should clarify the question. We’ve established that from the time you got there to the time of the shooting, you heard no shots.
A. No.
Q Okay. And Robert Webb never fired a shot at you or Deputy Kade?
A No.
Q And his weapon was not fired from the time you got there. Correct?
A No.
Q Okay. After the shots were fired, you called for EMS. Correct?
A Yes.
Q And that was you that did that, not Deputy Kade?
A Yes.
Q Okay. How long after the shots were fired did you call EMS?
A As soon as we seen he was unarmed, that’s when I got on the radio and yelled for help.
Q Okay. What did you do after you got on the radio and yelled for help?
A I walked over there and I didn’t want to touch him because he was so bloody and I looked at him and he didn’t appear to be breathing in anyway.
Q Okay. So after you called EMS, you walked to Robert Webb’s body?
A Yes.
Q Did Kade walk there with you?
A I believe he was behind me but I can’t recall that.
Mr. Williams: Is this a good time? Mr. Griffith: Do you need a break? ( Whereupon, there was a short break)
Q Mr. Hajash, we’re back on the record
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with regard to this deposition and I believe we left off where Kade had informed you that Robert Webb was unarmed and you could stop firing. And I was trying to figure out exactly where you were with regard to the truck and you told me. I’m going to try to find a blank sheet of paper here. Sir, if you wouldn’t mind, if you could kind of draw it out for us and show us where the driveway is and where the truck is and where you are and where Kade is and, you know, we’re not grading on artistic quality here. I’m just trying to get a general diagram of where you are so I can understand exactly.
A Now, what are you wanting to see? When I finally seen his hands or –
Q Yeah. I want to see the area that you approached and just show me where you ended up when the shooting occurred. If you want to put a “K” where Deputy Kade was and an “H” where you were, that would work.
Mr. Williams: You know, I just want to be sure. We’re depicting here the positions after the shots were fired.
Mr. Griffith: At the point the shots were fired.
Mr. Williams: Oh, at the point the shots were fired.
Mr. Griffith: At the point the shots were fired. I’m just trying to figure out.
Q And just to be clear, actually, my partner here was telling me I’m not very clear about where your third shot was, too.
A In the same spot.
Q Okay. Can you tell me – go ahead. Go ahead. I’m sorry.
A Oh, I’m done.
Q You’re done?
A Yeah.
Q Okay.
A Well, for the third shot – no, actually there are five shots. Right?
Q I’m actually asking where Kade fired his first shot.
A Okay. He stayed in the same spot as far as I know and I stayed in the same spot. That’s where he was before it started.
Q Okay. And were you standing in the same spot that you’ve drawn on this diagram when you fired your third shot?
A Yes.
Q Okay. So as I’m taking it, you were I think you said, a couple of feet off of the rear bumper.
A Yeah. Right behind the tailgate.
Q Okay. And then you were able to fire around, not under the truck?
A By the time he went from there and fell, I could see, like – I didn’t see his hands but I could see his shoulders and stuff. That’s when I fired my third shot. Then I believe it was his right arm I seen come over.
Q Okay.
A And to hold a rifle, you have to have both hands so –
Q Okay. And I was asking you, you know, which way you turned and another way I can look at it. When he turned and pointed something at you, did he turn clockwise or counterclockwise?
A I believe he turned counterclockwise but –
Q And he raised –
A –something—
Q to his right shoulder?
A –after he had already stopped turning and, like, seen Deputy Kade.
Q Uh-huh, (yes).
A Before he raised it, he eyeballed Deputy Kade for a couple of seconds.
Q Okay. So a couple of seconds went by between –
A Maybe, two seconds but it seemed like linger.
Q So maybe it was two seconds and then he – two seconds before he turned or two seconds before he raised his weapon allegedly.
A He turned around and he was stopped and had the rifle down and looked at Kade like he knew where he was going to aim the rifle and then raised it.
Q And the way he raised it, I mean, he raised it to take aim?
A Yeah. He put it to his shoulder in the firing position.
Q And the firing position is the gun to the right shoulder and the left hand holding the gun. He was actually holding the gun up?
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A Yes
Q Okay. And at that point, Deputy Kade fired the first shot?
A Yes.
Q And you fired immediately after, almost simultaneously?
A Yes. He was still holding the rifle and I shot twice.
Q Okay.
Mr: Griffith: If there are no objections, I’d like to attach the diagram as Exhibit A.
Mr. Williams: I have no objection to it being attached. Just a notation that it’s obviously not to scale –
Mr. Griffith: Oh, absolutely.
Mr:Williams: -- and to his best recollection and that’s all.
Mr. Griffith: Absolutely, I’m with you, Chip. (Whereupon, Hajash Deposition Exhibit A was marked for identification purposes)
Q And correct me if I’m wrong, I think we were at the point where I asked you what you did after the shooting was over and you told me that you approached Robert Webb’s body?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And do you remember if Deputy Kade approached Robert Webbs body?
A He was behind me and I really can’t recall.
Q Okay. When you approached Robert Webb’s body, were you still cautious at that point? Did you still have your weapon drawn?
A Yes. Because I didn’t know if someone else was in the garage because the garage door was open.
Q After you reached Robert Webb’s body, did you look at Robert Webb?
Q Okay. And I think you said you did not touch him?
A No. He had too much blood on him and I didn’t have Playtex gloves.
Q Okay. So did you check his vitals in any way?
A I looked at his chest because you could see it and I was looking for his movement and I didn’t see none.
Q Okay. It did not appear like he was breathing?
A No. He was not moving whatsoever.
Q Okay. What did you do after that?
A I went and cleared the garage and made sure no one else was in there.
Q Okay. When you say you cleared the garage, you approached the garage with your handgun drawn?
A Yes.
Q And you went through. Was the garage lit?
A I can’t remember. I remember I had my flashlight anyways.
Q Okay. So were you holding your flashlight and your weapon?
A Yes.
Q Okay. After you cleared the garage, what was Deputy Kade doing while you were clearing the garage?
A I believe he was still out in the driveway, keeping an eye out making sure nobody snuck around on us.
Q Okay. What happened after that, after you cleared the garage?
A We were waiting on the EMS and our supervisor to get there.
Q Okay. Did you talk to Deputy Kade after the shooting?
A One thing I remember him saying is he can’t believe we had to just shoot somebody because he was going to shoot us.
Q Okay. Did you speak to anybody else?
A Ms. Webb came out of her house and asked what was going on.
Q Okay. And what did you tell her?
A We told her to step back inside and we’d be with her in a minute.
Q Okay. When you said we told her, did you say that?
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A Yeah, I said that.
Q Okay. Did she step back inside?
A I think she asked again and I told her the same thing.
Q Okay.
A Then finally, she looked – she could see under the truck, I think, from her house. It’s lower than the driveway. She looked at him laying in the driveway and asked who shot who.
Q Okay. Did you tell Ms. Webb that if she did not go back in her home she would be arrested for obstruction?
A I can’t remember saying that.
Q Okay. How long did it take EMS to get there? That’s what I want to ask?
A I can’t even remember. It seemed like forever but –
Q Okay. Did you see a weapon when you approached Robert Webb?
A It was at his feet where he dropped it. When he fell, I guess he dropped it.
Q Okay. Where was it? Was it between—where was it in association with the truck?
A Right below the driver’s side door.
Q Okay. Did you touch the weapon?
A No.
Q So the weapon remained in the exact same position that it was in after the shooting as when EMS and the other people arrived?
A Yes.
Q Okay. So neither of you checked to see if the weapon was loaded?
A No.
Q Neither of you checked to see if the weapon had a safety feature?
A I didn’t. I don’t know if Deputy Kade did or not.
Q Okay. At anytime during the investigation, was Deputy Kade out of your sight?
A No. We were always in each other’s sight.
Q. Okay.
Mr. Williams: I’m going to object to the form because you said during the investigation.
r. Griffith: You’re right. You’re right. I’ll ask it again. I’ll re-ask.
Q During anytime that you and Deputy Kade were in the area after the shooting alone with no one else around, did Deputy Kade leave your sight?
A Not till our supervisor got there to relieve us.
Q Okay. And during that entire time, did you see Deputy Kade touch the weapon?
A No.
Q Was the weapon ever checked by you or Kade to see if it was loaded?
A Not that I’m aware of.
Q Was it ever checked to see if the safety was on ever?
A You mean by me or Kade?
Q By you or Kade?
A Not by me.
Q Okay. Did you speak to anyone in the neighborhood?
A No.
Q After the shooting, did any people come out of their homes?
A The neighbor directly across from their driveway come out and told his dog to shut the hell up. Then he walked back in the house.
Q Okay. He did not speak to you or Deputy Kade at all?
A No.
Q Did he approach the shooting scene at all?
A. No.
Q Did you personally ever speak with any person in the Webb family?
A No.
Q Okay. At any point, did any other members of the Webb family come to the area?
A Not while I was there, I do not believe.
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Q Okay. Who was the first to arrive at the site of the shooting after the shooting was completed, the first person either the Raleigh County Sheriff’s Department or the EMS?
A I believe Deputy Bircham showed up but don’t hold me to that. I believe.
Q Did several people come out there?
A You mean police or –
Q Police, the EMS? About how many people total between police and the EMS came out to the shooting scene?
A I think about 11 after the Sheriff and everybody came out, somewhere around there. And detectives and all that.
Q Okay. Can you tell me, if you know, the 11 people who were there after the shooting occurred?
A After it occurred, there was Sheriff Moore, Tanner, Canaday, Lilly, Bircham and Williams. Of course, myself and
Deputy Kade was there and the numerous EMS people.
Q And you don’t know those people?
A No.
Q How many EMS vehicles showed up?
A I know at least two showed up but for some reason, I was thinking three.
Q I know you said it seemed like it took forever for other people to get there but do you know an approximate time on how long it took the first person, Deputy Bircham, to get there?
A Probably less than ten minutes I believe.
Q Okay. Assuming it was Deputy Bircham, what did he say to you?
A He asked if we were all right.
Q Okay. Bircham, Moore, Tanner, Canaday. Do you know what order yhey arrived in? Did some of them arrive together?
A I don’t recall.
Q Okay.
A It was Bircham and then Williams but I can’t remember from there.
Q Okay. What did Deputy Bircham do when he arrived on the scene?
A I can’t recall.
Q Okay. During the time that you were waiting for these other people to arrive, these other deputies and these EMT’s. what were you and Deputy and Kade doing?
A Mainly just standing there waiting still.
Q Okay. It took approximately less than ten minutes for the next person to arrive on the scene. About how long did it take for EMS to get there?
A Not too long after Bircham, I do believe.
Q Okay. Were they given access to the body immediately upon arrival on the scene?
A Yes. I told them to let Bircham take a picture of him, the way he is, before they cut his clothes off of him. Because EMS will tamper with crime scenes.
Q Okay. So they were not denied access to Robert Webb’s body for 20 minutes?
A No.
Q Okay.
A I said, let him take a picture then they could check him.
Q Okay. Was there some form of sheet or cloth or tarp, whatever, that was placed over the fence in the Webb yard to obscure the scene from view from the Webb house?
A Once, I think once Lieutenant Williams got there, he ordered myself and Deputy Kade to go back to our vehicles.
Q Uh-huh, (yes).
A And that’s the last time we were around the scene.
Q Okay. As soon as the second person, Deputy Williams, showed up on scene, he ordered you and Deputy Kade to return to your vehicles?
A First, I’d take names down of the EMS workers before he ordered us to do that. I believe he was the one that ordered us to do that.
Q Regardless, you were ordered after the second person arrived on the scene to leave the area?
A I believe EMS was there but I’m talking second law enforcement.
Q Okay.
A I believe EMS was already there at that time.
Q Okay. So when the second law enforcement personnel got there, he ordered you and Kade
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to go back to your vehicles?
A Yes.
Q Were you given any other orders at that time?
A Just to go to our vehicles.
Q Okay. Were you told to stay in your vehicles, to sit in a vehicle together, it didn’t matter?
A We stayed up there for a while and then we come down to where everybody else was, not at the scene but on down the road closer than what we was, where they parked their vehicles.
Q Okay. Other law enforcement did not park in the same area that you and Deputy Kade did?
A No. They parked right in front of the Webb residence.
Q Okay. So you walked to that area to speak to them?
A No. They walked up to where the scene was.
Q Okay. I’m getting a little confused here. I’m trying to figure out. The second law enforcement personnel that got on the scene ordered you and Kade to go somewhere. Where were you ordered to go?
A To our cruiser parked at the end of Cabell Heights Road.
Q And that’s what you did?
A Yes.
Q So what did you do once you got to your cruisers?
A That’s when all the detectives and the Sheriff and Tanner was coming by and they stopped and checked on us.
Q Okay. And they were all coming to look at the scene?
A They were coming to do their investigation or whatever they did.
Q Did you assist in closing off the crime scene?
A No. Lieutenant Williams did that. We just kept it contained where nobody could come in it til he got there.
Q Okay. You got a statement after the shooting occurred. Correct?
A Yes.
Q And that was I think we established earlier a couple of days after the shooting possibly?
A Yes.
Q Did you speak to anyone regarding your statement before that statement was taken?
A What do you mean?
Q Did you speak to anyone regarding your statement prior to that statement being taken?
A No. I gave two statements, like, two times to the detectives.
Q You gave two different statements?
A Yes. I think one of them was the night of and the other was two days later.
Q Okay. The statement that you gave the night of, was that recorded?
A I believe so but I can’t swear to that.
Q Do you know who took that statement?
A Lilly and Canaday.
Q And Lilly and Canaday were asking questions?
A I believe so.
Q And who took your second statement?
A The same two.
Q Okay. When they took your statement the night of the shooting, did you see any kind of recording device?
A I can’t recall.
Q Okay.
A I would assume there was one but I can’t recall.
Q Okay. I think we established at the very beginning of this deposition that you reviewed a statement prior to this deposition.
A Yes.
Q Was that the statement that you gave to Canaday and Lilly?
A Yeah. I think it was two or three days later, that statement.
Q Okay. It was the statement that was taken two or three days later?
A Yes.
Q. Okay. Take a look at this. If you want to take a look at this statement please, is that the statement you reviewed? And feel free to read the whole thing if you need to. Is that the statement that you reviewed in preparation for today’s deposition?
A I believe so. I believe that’s the same one.
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Mr. Griffith: Let’s go ahead and attach this as Exhibit B.
(Whereupon, Hajash Deposition Exhibit B was marked for identification purposes)
Q So this statement was taken two to three days after the shooting?
A I believe so.
Q Okay.
A They’re going to be the same because my story has never changed.
Q Okay.
A Because it was so close together, it was still fresh.
Q Did you speak to Deputy Kade prior to giving the statement the night you gave the statement to Deputies Lilly and Canaday?
A What do you mean the night, of the shooting or—
Q The night of the shooting, did you speak to Deputy Kade about the statement that was to be taken?
A No.
Q Did you speak to anyone else?
A Not that I recall.
Q Okay. When you gave that statement to Canaday and Lilly, where were you? Were you at your cruiser?
A We were at the Sheriff’s Office.
Q Okay. You’d gotten back to the Sheriff’s Office?
A Uh-huh (yes).
Q About what time did you give that statement?
A I think it was around 4:00, somewhere around there.
Q Around 4:00 A.M.?
A I think so.
Q After you were ordered to go back to your cruisers by whomever ordered you to do that, how long were you at your cruisers?
A I can’t recall.
Q Okay. Do you remember what time about the shooting occurred?
A Right after 1:00.
Q Okay.
A A couple minutes after.
Q Did you do anything else after the shooting?
A You mean anymore calls?
Q Did you finish your shift that night?
A No.
Q No more calls?
A No.
Q Okay. Did you go directly from the Webb home to the Raleigh County Sheriff’s Department?
A Yes.
Q Okay. What time was that?
A Three something, probably.
Q Okay. What were you doing once you got back to the Raleigh County Sheriff’s Department?
A We were waiting on Lilly and Canaday to get ready to take statements.
Q Okay. And they got there around 4:00 A.M.?
A We took the statements in the 4:00 hour somewhere.
Q Okay. What were you doing specifically while you were waiting for Lilly and Canaday?
A I can’t remember, just waiting for them to be ready.
Q Okay. Did you have something to eat. something to drink?
A Not that I recall.
Q Okay. Did you speak to anybody?
A No.
Q Was anybody else present when this statement was taken?
A I don’t believe.
Q Okay. Were you and Kade questioned together by Canaday and Lilly?
A No.
Q You were questioned separately?
A Yes.
Q Was Deputy Kade present when you were questioned?
A No.
Q Were you present when Deputy Kade was questioned?
A No.
Q What time did you receive your
Page 113 – 116
statement?
A It only took a couple of minutes, I think.
Q Okay. What did you do after your statement was taken?
A I think I went out there until they came out to do them with us and told us to go home.
Q Okay. Did you give your statement first or did Kade give his first?
A I can’t recall.
Q Okay. After your statement was given. you said you were waiting somewhere. Where were you waiting?
A Just in the building somewhere.
Q Okay. What were you waiting for?
A To make sure they were done with us and didn’t need us for anything else or any more questions.
Q Okay. What was the next thing you were told by your superiors?
A They told us to go home.
Q Okay. And is that what you did?
A Yeah.
Q Were you given any form of drug or alcohol screen after the shooting?
A No.
Q Did you have any medical checkups after the shooting?
A A psychological.
Q Okay. You had a psychological checkup after the shooting?
A Yes.
Q When was that?
A A couple days later before we could return to work.
Q Who was that that who did the psychological evaluation?
A It was Mike Johnson.
Q Mike Johnson. Was Mike Johnson the person who gave you your psychological test prior to becoming an officer?
A I don’t think so.
Q Do you remember who gave you your psychological evaluation prior to your becoming an officer?
A It was at that same doctor’s office but I don’t remember who gave it to me.
Q Okay. So it was at the office where Mike Johnson is located?
A Yes.
Q. Okay. How long was your psychological evaluation with Mike Johnson after the shooting?
A Maybe an hour.
Q Okay.
A I think.
Q When you met with Mike Johnson, did you discuss the shooting?
A Yes.
Q What was discussed?
M
an objection. You’re in privileged territory now. You’re talking about his psychological records and I’m not going to let him answer those questions at this time. We’ll take it up with the judge at sometime in the future and if I get ruled against, we’ll make him available again.
Mr.Griffith: Okay.
Mr. Moore: But for the time being, I’m going to object to questions regarding his psychological records.
Mr. Griffith: Okay
Q Did you work as an officer between the time that the shooting occurred and you met with Mike Johnson?
A No.
Q Did Mike Johnson clear you to return to work?
A Yes.
Q Did you meet with anyone other than Mike Johnson?
A No.
Q Had you met Mike Johnson prior to the time you met him after the shootings?
A No.
Q Had anybody at the Raleigh County Sheriff’s Department told you anything about Mike Johnson prior to your meeting with him?
A No
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Q Do you know if Mike Johnson is regularly used by the Raleigh County Sheriff’s Department?
A I know that office is. I don’t know if he is or not. There’s a couple of people in that building.
Q Do you know if Mike Johnson is a psychiatrist?
A He’s a counselor, I believe.
Q He’s a counselor?
A Yes.
Q So do you know if he has a psychiatry or a psychology degree?
A No, I don’t.
Q Do you know if he has a title?
A No.
Q Do you know if Deputy Kade saw a counselor, psychiatrist or psychologist after the shooting?
A I think he seen the same person I did.
Q You believe he saw Mike Johnson?
A Yes.
Q Did he see Mike Johnson on the same day that you saw Mike Johnson?
A Yes.
Q Did you travel to Mike Johnson’s office together?
A No.
Q What time was your appointment at Mike Johnson’s?
A It was in the morningtime.
Q Okay. Do you know what time Deputy Kade’s appointment was?
A Before mine.
Q Do you know if Mike Johnson cleared Deputy Kade for duty?
A I believe so.
Q Do you know if Mike Johnson has cleared other Raleigh County Sheriff’s Department deputies for duty?
A I have no idea.
Q Has anybody told you that Mike Johnson has cleared any Raleigh County Sheriff’s Department deputies for duty?
A No.
Q Were you ever told that Mike Johnson specifically is retained by the Raleigh County Sheriff’s Department to clear people for duty?
A No. That was just always my assumption. Well, that office, not him in particular.
Q Did you ever meet with Mike Johnson after the appointment that you had?
A Yes.
Q You met with him after the appointment after the shooting occurred?
A Yes.
Q When was that?
A Months down the road. I can’t remember when exactly.
Q Two, four, six, eight months?
A I’d say at least four or five, maybe. I can’t recall.
Q And how many months was that again, you think, before you saw Mike Johnson again?
A I can’t remember if it was before the first of the year or after it. And I went off work in March, so it was definitely before then.
Q Okay. In Requests for Admissions we served on you previously – do you remember going over some Requests for Admissions?
A Yes.
Q Okay. We had asked you Request for Admission No. 21 previous in this case to admit that you were off work for a period of time of multiple months following the shooting of Robert Webb and your response was, “This Defendant admits that he was off work on a medical leave however he worked immediately following the shooting and continued to do so for 8 ½ months prior to this medical leave.” Did I read this correctly?
A Yes.
Q And that was your response to this question. Correct?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Did you see Mike Johnson in that 8 ½ months?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Why did you see Mike Johnson?
r. Moore: Objection.
Mr. Williams: I’m going to object to the relevance of this entire line of questioning. Obviously, I’m going to instruct the
Page 121 - 124
witness about it but just note a standing objection to the relevance to the line of questioning.
Mr. Griffith: Okay.
the witness: Do I still answer?
Mr. Moore: No, don’t answer. Just for the record, I believe your question was why did you see Mike Johnson. I’ve raised the privilege and instruct him not to answer.
Mr. Griffith: Okay.
Q Well, let me ask you this, was your visit with Mike Johnson after your visit after the shooting? You had a visit after the shooting and then you had another one later? Was it just one more visit?
A I believe one or two.
Q Okay. And was it related to the psychological evaluation that the Raleigh County Sheriff’s Department needed you to have?
r. Williams: Objection.
r. Griffith: Let’s attach these as Exhibit 3. I’ll probably be going back to these.
(Whereupon, Hajash Deposition Exhibit C was marked for identification purposes)
Q Why were you told by the Raleigh County Sheriff’s Department that you were being sent to see Mike Johnson?
A I don’t recall it ever being said why. They just said we needed to talk to him.
Q Okay. Were you told prior to your appointment who you would be seeing?
A Yes. That way we’d know who we’d ask for to tell them we were there to see.
Q Okay. Were you given any information on the person’s qualifications?
A No.
Q Their background?
A No.
Q Any background they had with the Taleigh County Sheriff’s Department?
A No.
Q Did you ever meet with any other doctors with regard to the Robert Webb shooting?
A What period are you talking about?
Q Well, did you ever meet with a Dr. Syed?
A Yes.
Q Okay. What was Sheriff Moore’s reaction to your meeting with Dr. Syed?
Mr. Williams: Objection as to relevance. And just so I don’t have to keep interrupting your questioning, I’m going to have a standing objection to the relevance to this entire line of questioning.
r. Moore: What was your question again? What was Sheriff Moore’s –
Mr. Griffith: What Sheriff Moore’s reaction?
Mr. Moore: Reaction. Thank you. The witness: Still answer that or –
Mr. Williams: Yeah. You can answer that.
A He didn’t like it because I went outside of the doctor that they were paying for and started paying for my own.
Q You know, I didn’t go over this. Have you ever been involved in a lawsuit before?
A No.
Q Have you ever been involved in any claims of excessive force?
A Yes.
Q How many claims of excessive force?
A One.
Q Who made that claim of excessive force?
A I don’t know who made the claim.
Q Okay. Do you remember the incident of where the claim arose?
A Yes.
Q What incident was that?
A It was at Weston Sharp Hospital with a mental patient.
Q Okay. What happened at the hospital with the mental patient?
A When I went to get him out of the car, I looked and he had pissed in my backseat. And at that point, I went to get him out of the car and he was in shackles and I went to get him and I lifted him up and when I looked him in the face, he spit right in my face
Page 125 - 128
And I brought him out of the car and he tried to – he was a big ‘ol boy and he tried to use his weight to push me around. So I got him on the ground and I was holding him down till a nurse walked by and got her to come out there and get security to help me get him inside.
Q Okay. And that was the situation that resulted?
A Yes. The head nurse said that was excessive.
Q Okay. Were you investigated for this claim of excessive force?
A Yes.
Q Who were you investigated by?
A The FBI.
Q Okay. Do you know why the FBI was brought in?
A Because that’s who investigates police brutality or using excessive force cases.
Q Do you know who brought in the FBI, who called them?
A No.
Q Okay. Was the FBI ever brought in with regard to the shooting of Robert Webb?
A No.
Q Did you file any form of Workers’ Compensation claim after the shooting of Robert Webb?
A Yes.
Q Why did you file that?
A Because the doctor took me off –
Mr. Williams: Standing objection as to relevance.
Q Are you represented by counsel in that Workers’ Compensation case?
A It was never made a case.
Q Were you ever represented by counsel in that matter?
A I believe so at the time.
Q What’s the status of that claim?
A It was denied.
Q Okay. How did Sheriff Moore react to your filing a Workers’ Compensation claim?
Mr. Williams: Objection to relevance.
Mr. Moore: You can answer
A I don’t remember him ever saying nothing about it.
Q Looking at Deputy John E Hajash’s Supplemental Responses To Plaintiff’s First Set of Interrogatories and Request For Production of Documents –
Mr. Moore: Which one?
Mr. Griffith: I’m actually going to go through a bunch of them.
Mr. Moore: Okay. Go ahead. I’m sorry.
Q If you want to, take a look at them. Do you remember looking at these questions that we sent to you?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Do you remember answering them?
A Yes.
Q Can you flip to the last page there?
A Yes. You mean this one?
Q The very last page. That’s a verification. Correct?
A Yes.
Q And you signed that verification?
A Yes.
Q And when you signed that verification, did you understand that you were signing a verification that those questions were made truthfully and were sworn under oath?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Let’s flip to Question No. 17. We asked for you to, “State fully and in detail the current status of your employment with the Raleigh County Sheriff’s Department. If you are no longer employed by the Raleigh County Sheriff’s Department, please state: (a) whether you voluntarily resigned your position of employment or whether employment was terminated by the Raleigh County Sheriff’s Department; (b) the date you last reported for duty and worked a full shift as an employee of the Raleigh County Sheriff’s Department and (c) the reasons you believe you are no longer employed by the Raleigh County Sheriff’s Department.” Did I read that correctly?
A Yes.
Q And you answer was to (a) you were terminated while off on unpaid medical leave.
A Yes.
Page 129 - 132
Q You were terminated on Mar 15, 2007.
A That was my last day of work. I was still employed after that.
Q Okay. And the answer to (c) the reason you were no longer employed, you said, “Because Steve Tanner and Danny Moore did not like me and did not care about me enough to help me with my problems. These two saw an opportunity to terminate my employment since I was on unpaid medical leave and they did.” Did I read that correctly?
A Yes.
Q Okay. To what problems are you talking about in this answer? <
Mr. Williams: Standing objection as to relevance.
Q You can answer.
A Well, about the problems I was – well, the dreams I was having after the shooting..
Q Okay. And you also state that Steve Tanner and Danny Moore did not like you. Why do you think they didn’t like you?
Mr. Williams: Objection. Calls for speculation and relevance.
Mr. Griffith: Okay.
By Mr. Williams
Q Do you know why they didn’t like you?
A Not actual know, no.
Q Okay. Have you formed a belief as to why they did not like you?
A Yes.
Q What is that belief?
Mr. Williams: Calls for speculation.
By Mr. Griffith:
A That I was so young when they hired me, they didn’t like it.
Q Okay.
Mr. Griffith: Could I attach that as “C”? Or that’s “D”.
(Whereupon, Hajash Deposition Exhibit D was marked for identification purposes)
A I received a Letter of Termination in the mail from Danny Moore.
A I believe so.
A I had exhausted my Family Medical Leave Act, the 12-week period you’re allowed. They said after that, my position would no longer be held.
A Yes.
A Some juveniles was kicking a potato around like a soccer ball and one of them just squashed it and the security guard told him to clean it up and he told him no. And another deputy showed up and told him to clean it up, which I wasn’t there, this is just what was said, I was at the other end of the mall. When he told him to clean it up, the boy said he wasn’t doing nothing, he told him and they got into a physical altercation. And then I went up there and a bunch of other kids started jumping on all of us and the security guards and just trying to fight.
A It was in March.
A Yes
A I got jumped on by some but I didn’t physically fight with none.
A No.
A No.
A They grabbed it but they didn’t get it out.
A No.
A No. I was on the midnight shift.
A No.
A Now, what do you mean?
A No.
A Yes.
A Yes.
A Twice.
A Just to cover me in case they fired me or something like that?
A Because I just figured that they were going to try to fire me or something where I was off medical leave.
A I was just told by another deputy it’d be a good idea.
A Keith Harold.
A Harold.
A Yes.
A Now, what was that again?
A Basically, just don’t trust nobody ever no matter who it is and it never hurts to tape conversations.
A No.
A What do you mean?
A No.
A Yes.
A No, I never said that.
A I tried to get them transcribed one time through Keith Harold and Bob McComas was supposed to keep them just in case something happened to me or somebody broke in my house and took them.
A He just said something like they might try to come and kill me or something, just put all kinds of crazy ideas out in the air for me to reach up and grab, I guess.
A So I told him to keep them at his house. That way nothing could happen to them.
A Just about me being off on medical leave.
A Just one of them with Tanner.
A I don’t have none of the tapes. I have burnt CD’s.
A Yeah. I don’t have the tapes no more.
A No, just one.
A I don’t have neither tape but I have a CD.
A Yes. No. One was with Tanner and one was with Moore but I only have possession of the Tanner one.
A Yes.
A It was just about me being off on medical leave.
A The shooting itself because that’s what was part of my problems.
A What do you mean rehashed?
A Yeah.
A Yes.
Q Okay.
A No.
A No.
A We just had to go over them and read them with the supervisor and signed them saying that we received them.
A At least that’s the way Lieutenant Williams made you do it.
A Like, what kind?
A Yes.
A Yes.
A Well, they give you an idea and they leave it up to you.
A Yes.
A The only guaranteed times you can use it for cover is like traffic stops. That’s the only time you’re guaranteed to have it with you.
A They said always use cover.
A Yes.
A Not once we approached him.
A We just had visual cover. Concealment. It wasn’t bulletproof cover but concealment just where he couldn’t see us.
A The hedgerow. That’s the way we had to go up the road anyway.
A Yes.
A Like what do you mean? What kind of cover?
A Yes. Of course, that’s just visual cover.
A Yes.
A No. Q You testified earlier that your sidearm is a Glock 23.
A Yes.
A Yes.
A Yes.
Q But when you approach the scene and when you’re taught to use that weapon, are you taught to keep your finger on the trigger or off the trigger?
A Off the trigger.
A Yes.
A When we started up walking Primrose Lane.
A After.
A No.
A Once we got behind the hedgerow, we could not see him. That’s after his music stopped and he was at his truck. We could see him then and once we started walking, we lost visual on him.
A Pointed at him when Deputy Kade announced our presence.
A Yes.
A Yes.
A Yes.
A Right.
A (Witness nods head yes)
A Yes.
A Yes.
A We took it as if he was shooting the siding on his house, the bullets possibly going through the walls and everything.
A No. I never was told that he did or didn’t.
A Yes.
A A misdemeanor.
A Yeah.
A Just everyone I ever rode with.
A Most of them.
A No.
A No.
A Sometimes.
A Yes.
A Yes.
A No.
A Bunches.
A A couple of handfuls.
A Probably more than that?
A (Witness nods head yes)
A Meaning any persons outside?
A No.
A Just that one vehicle that drove by.
A Yes.
A No.
A Yes.
A Not to pronounce it, no.
A The Medical Examiner.
A No.
A No. I said there wasn’t any training on that.
A No.
A That was up to my discretion.
A After he had no signs of life, yes.
A No.
A Yes.
A Yes.
A None as far as I was aware of.
A I have no idea.
Mr. Williams: Objection to form.
A Yes.
A No.
A They wouldn’t have had the phone number
A Not that I’m aware of.
A Yes.
A It says, Only God can judge me.
A Yes.
A This year.
A In March.
A I just always liked that saying.
A Because everyone wants to judge everybody’s life because they don’t live the way that they want them to.
A No.
A Yes.
A I have a cross on my biceps and my last name across my back and my son’s name on my chest.