1. wvgal - l RE: http://www.register-herald.com/local/local_story_185223921.html
If this story is reported correctly it is filled with so much saddness. For years, WV's have shot guns into the air at New Years. In recent years we have learned that what goes up must come down (MythBusters and other shows). If this story is correct I am so sorry for this family to do what WV's have done for hundred's of years to end in such tragedy. My heart aches for everyone involved. Posted Jul 05, 2006 07:20

2. Kymorcas - How old are you? Do you know what an AK-47 is? This is not the case of a drunken redneck with his shotgun, shooting in the air to celebrate the 4th of July. An AK-47 is an assault rifle and he aimed it at the police officers. As far as "what goes up must come down"; I learned that years ago in one of my first Science classes as a child. Posted Jul 05, 2006 08:17

3. infusion - This truly is a tragedy. I don't feel the officers are to blame. They can't stop to get references while an AK-47 is pointed at them. They have to react in split second timing. Mostly likely when they go on a shots fired call, they don't know the details of the situation when they get there. They don't know if there has already been someone shot, if there is some type of domestic, if the person is under the influence of some type of controlled substance, or if's a law abiding citizen just celebrating. They reacted in self-defense, it's horrible and my prayers go out to the family for their loss. Also to the two officers, I'm sure they feel pain, guilt, and remorse for having to make that call, but I'm sure they did what anyone would do in that type of situation. Posted July 05, 2006 14:08

4. torn up - quote: Originally posted by kymorcas: How old are you? Do you know what an AK-47 is? This is not the case of a drunken redneck with his shotgun, shooting in the air to celebrate the 4th of July.
An AK-47 is an assault rifle and he aimed it at the police officers. As far as "what goes up must come down"; I learned that years ago in one of my first Science classes as a child. Posted Jul 05, 2006 17:47

5. Candice - I just have to say that whatever your name is...you have no idea what your talking about, you didnt know Rob so you have no grounds to say that he was pointing that gun at police. I knew Rob and his family and it is a tragedy what has happened and i think that your a cold person for putting your two cents in where it was definatly not needed or wanted! Rob was a nice man and those of you who didnt have the oppritunity to know him need to shut up! Rob had stopped drinking a long long time ago so he wasnt under the influence of anything! he was just celebrating the 4th. and now a man is dead and his daughters have to grow up with out a father. A misunderstanding ended in a a way that could have been easily avoided if those cops would have done their job instead of shooting first and asking questions later! My prayers are with his Family and im so sorry for their loss. Posted Jul 06, 2006 02:05

6. Big Dog131 - Candice, have you ever been a police officer? Have you? Have you ever had to run from call to call to call, deal with men who beat their wives, deal with people hating you, just because you're "the law"- UNTIL they need you? Have you ever been called to a situation, on minimal information, to deal with something on a split second, hoping you make the right decison, because if you make the wrong decision, it could be your life? What has happened is a tragedy. On both sides. But you have to use some COMMON SENSE. You can celebrate the 4th of July, yeah, go crazy, but don't do it using an AK-47 ASSAULT RIFLE! That is the same weapon used againt our boys in iraq. What would you do if those rounds being fired into the air came down and shot you gramma through her mobile home roof, while she was just lying in bed. It's just an example, but I hope you see that side of the argument. I'm sure Mr. Webb was a good person. He made a mistake and unfortunately has paid the highest price for it. Those officer's will have to live with this the rest of their lives. But they've not done wrong. Yes, situations can all be handled in different ways, and this incident had a sad ending, but were you there? How do you know that the officer's didn't tell Mr. Webb to put the weapon down? Don't say the officer's weren't doing their jobs until you've walked in their shoes one time. You might have had to do the same thing. Posted Jul 06, 2006 03:55

7. Jaquar - Is it not ironic that an American citizen was firing an AK-47 in celebration of Independence Day? This isn't the Middle East. We don't celebrate July 4th by firing weapons in the air. West Virginia laws prohibit rockets and explosive fireworks, much less assault rifles. As for the rest of the story, I'll be siding with our law enforcement until something else surfaces that proves the man did not point the weapon toward the officers. Posted Jul 06, 2006 04:38

8. Candice - I understand that the officers were just doing what they thought they had to do but if it was someone close to you, a friend or relative, you would be wondering why this happened and thinking of how easily it could have been avoided. Its just harder for me to fathom the situation because i new this man and his family members and im just shocked. and of course i dont think that firing an AK-47 is normal on the 4th or any other day just out of the blue, But this incident really hits home for me, its personal ya know. I apoligize for my attitude toward those of you who have spoken your mind on the matter but at the same time you have to understand my anger toward the men who killed him. I also have to understand that they were trying to keep others safe....but, they made a mistake. He was a good man! Posted Jul 06, 2006 06:19

9. kymorcas - Candice: I sympathize with your loss of your friend; but I am also picturing an alternative headline to this story. MAN WITH ASSAULT RIFLE KILLS FAMILY AND TWO POLICE OFFICERS. He may have been a good man, but HE made a BIG mistake, not the police officers. He was told by the police officers to put down his weapon and instead of doing so, put it to his shoulder and aimed it at the officers. They had every right to defend themselves. It was their duty to protect the people in the area. The loss is a tragedy, but the situation could have been avoided if your friend hadn't been playing with the assault rifle to begin with and/or complied by laying the weapon down when the officers requested him to do so. Posted Jul 6 2006 07:43

10. Candice - I happen to know for a fact that he wouldnt hurt anybody ill drw my own conlusions and you can draw yours Posted Jul 06, 2006 08:27

11. shadow205 - Candice, You may have known that this man would not hurt anyone but the officers did not. All that they had to go by was that a man was told to put down a weapon and instead pointed it at them. They did what they had to do. Posted Jul 06, 2006 08:49

12. Floyd - Candice, How do you know he didn't suddenly snap? You don't because you weren't there. Neither was I but if he pointed a weapon at the police officers and they deemed it threatened their safety, they had every right to fire. Your personal interest in the action has threatened your objectivity about it. Me, I'm waiting to hear the facts after the investigation is over. Posted Jul 06, 2006 08:51

13. Watchfuleye - Candice, Sweetie, the police are not therapists. They are not lawyers, judges, jurors, or ministers. They are paid to uphold the law and protect citizen's life and property. Whoever made the 911 call to stop or investigate the disturbance at Mr. Webb's address felt that there was a reason to fear. They were concerned about life and property and they wanted protection. The police responded to the incident and did their job. Mr. Webb was firing an AK-47 assault riffle, one of the most deadly weapons in combat. He wasn't shooting off fire crackers or bottle rockets. The weapon Mr. Webb had has the ability to cut a person in half in about 1/2 second. That really doesn't leave a lot of time for a police officer to negotiate terms. I assure you, if someone even looked at me holding an AK-47, I wouldn't even give them time to blink before I defended myself. The blame you are looking for falls on Mr. Webb. I am sure there is the possibility that he was a good man. I am sure he was a father and a husband. But, I am also sure that he made a deadly mistake. Sometimes in life, we have to use our own common sense to survive. Society actually expects us to walk around with a little basic knowledge on how to behave. Mr. Webb, no matter how loved and revered by friends and family members, put others lives in danger. He did not use the common sense that God gave him to function in Society. Now he is gone. But, everyone else is here and alive. I am sorry for Mr. Webb. I am sorry for his family and friends. But, it seams to me that someone could have had the common sense to tell him not to take out the AK-47. Were there no friends and family present at the time of the shooting that could have simply discouraged the act? I know you are hurt and angry. But, keep the blame where it belongs. Sometimes we have to take off the rose colored glasses and see things for what they really are. The guns did not kill Mr. Webb. The officers did not kill Mr. Webb. Mr. Webb was a victim of his own demise. He did not think! And, that is truly a tragedy. I, personally, would like to thank the people in law enforcement that put their lives on the line every day to protect us all. I know you are good people too! You are husbands, wives, mothers, fathers and good friends. And, you are truly courageous. Posted Jul 06, 2006 09:06

14. wayintheboonies - One must be responsible for his/her own actions. I would feel responsible for contributing to Mr. Webb's death if I were nearby and did nothing knowing he was such a reveled man of the community. I agree with watchfuleye. Posted Jul 06, 2006 09:42

15. What are they up to now? - There is no misunderstanding what a gun/rifle or pistol is used for. Death. Plain and simple. Its not a toy. It is a weapon. The mere pointing a gun at life indicates the intent wether it is a animal or human. The use of firearms are regulated by law which is a representative of the peoples belief in the safe use of firearms. Tell me how anyone can defend the use of a firearm within 500 feet of homes when the law specifically names that footage. If you are using a rifle in violation of the law...expect to be punished. Someone obviously felt the need for law enforcement or the call would not have been made. Rightfully so. I am happy that the men and women of the sherriffs department are defending not only themselves but also the community. Good job deputies. Keep up the good work. There are too many rogue persons breaking the laws to get personal with the intent. Posted Jul 06, 2006 10:05

16. Prissy - I agree with you all that this is such a tragedy made even more so by the fact that it should never have happened in the first place. I just can't understand why a grown father of 2 would have a weapon out playing with it in the first place. The article states that the deputies responded to a complaint that Mr. Webb was firing a gun in the neighborhood and when they identified themselves and told him to put the weapon down, he responded by placing the AK-47 on his shoulder and aiming it at them. That shows intent to shoot and kill. The article didn't state that he was shooting up in the air at all. I know that some people shoot guns on holidays but not all West Virginians practice that certain tradition. Gun safety was the number one issue growing up in my family of hunters. It was stipulated to all four of us children and especially to my 2 brothers that the hunting rifles were never ever to be taken out of their case until the moment they went hunting; and the only time they were to be out of their case at home was when they cleaned them which was only when they got back from hunting. And if one of us children even harbored the idea of taking a gun out to play with or even look at it, all priveledges, including hunting, would cease to exist forever. If this was truly an accident, then the only thing one can hope for is that somewhere, sometime, some kind of good might come out of this. Maybe in the future it will even help to prevent the same kind of tragedy from happening again. One can hope that the next time someone decides to take a gun out to play around with it they will remember this useless, tragic loss of life and put the gun away under lock and key. As mature, responsible adults, we must all learn, practice, and teach gun safety at all times. I would like to say to Mr. Webb's family and friends and the 2 deputies and their family and friends, I am sorry. This should never have happened. It was senseless. Posted Jul 06, 2006 13:23

17. Both Sides Of The Fence - Well, where do I begin? See, I am on "Both Sides of the Fence!" Robert was a relative of mine, that I believe WAS a good man, loving husband and wonderful father! However, I am also the wife of a law enforcement officer in New Jersey. Through my husband's years of service, he has encountered more situations than I would like to remember! He has been in disputes with people high on drugs, drunk, and domestic violence; he has had knives pointed at him, things thrown at him and yes, has even been SHOT at! Fortunately for us, he has never been in the situation of having to take another human beings life! His opinions of this tragedy are very different than mine, because, in fact, he does walk in the shoes of those officers that responded to the scene. I worry about him walking out the door everyday! If we go by what the "MEDIA" is saying about this incident, he probably would have reacted in the same manner. However, we weren't there! We will never know what truly happened that night! There are only three people that know the truth and unfortunately, Robert cannot defend his side. Therefore, we will only ever know the officers side of the story, which will lead most people to lean toward them protecting and serving their community. The "MEDIA" keeps talking about these officers that are on leave for counseling now. What about counseling for the family of Robert? What about his wife? His children? This is something that should have never happened. Robert's beautiful little girls are left to grow up without their daddy now. Robert's wonderful wife is left to raise her children alone! My heart is aching for my family! My prayers are with you! I love you all! Posted Jul 06, 2006 18:30

18. Alferd - Many years ago, working outside of Raleigh County, the city police shot and killed one of its reputable citizens who I do understand went on a rampage that night and I understand he had a gun and I believe shooting it. The citizens were very upset about that death which they felt was uncalled for, but nothing ever became of it. Many wondered, since the policemen personally knew who he was and that he was usually an extremely kind and likeable person, was it possible they could have reasoned with him? I will never forget reading in the paper where this girl’s elderly father went on a rampage and she called the law enforcement officers. I am sure she was wanting help for her father, not to have him killed. But, it ended that way. I recall quite a few years ago in the middle of the night, I was awakened by Reverend So and So and someone else. They wanted me to get a warrant out on this person because he was threatening this person and I do believe a gun was involved. I knew this had taken place before and refused to get involve because just like the two incidents listed above, I realize when the police get involved, things can go astray. All did work out fine. (Now as I write this, I realize they could have made that call themselves, it seems like a warrant would not have been necessary.) Had I been that neighbor of Mr. Webb who called the police, I would have to wonder, if this was not a normal occurrence, would I had called the police. As far as the posting by “Both Side of the Fence” from NJ, and Robert was a relative, I know I have had several friends who have been with the law enforcement and you do worry and wonder, will harm come to them today. I have always seen the policemen, firefighters, etc. as our silent heroes. But I do know on two occasions, I have been stopped by the police, one time for a burnt out tail light which was in broad daylight and the other I will not expound on, but it was unbelievable and I can honestly say in both cases the policemen were more then obnoxious for no reason at all. Makes me wonder, could that had been part of the problem? I do not write this to throw stones, because there is no way I in good faith could. But this incident makes me remember how I reacted to such an incident and why. Mr. Webb seemed to be an outstanding citizen.
Robert Alan Webb, 44, of Beckley, died Tuesday, July 4, 2006. Born July 1, 1962, at Beckley, he was the son of Francis Andrews Webb of Mabscott, and the late Grover Wayne Webb. Robert was a 1980 graduate of Woodrow Wilson High School. He was owner/operator of R.A.W. Concrete Finishing. He was a member of St. Francis de Sales Catholic Church, Father John Halpin Council 5657 Knights of Columbus and the Pinch Creek Trout Association. Robert was a unique individual. Everyone that came in contact with him felt his kindness and helpfulness shining through. From his involvement in the church parish festival, his work involved in “Make A Difference Day,” chaperoning during youth field trips to shoveling snow on church grounds, Rob was an extremely active member in his church and loved his church family dearly. An avid outdoorsman, Rob enjoyed hunting, ATV riding, and fishing on the water’s edge at Glade Creek. Those who knew Rob best, knew that his main passion was spending time with his family, especially his two young girls. Besides his mother, he is survived by his wife, Mary Kathryn Voloski-Webb; daughters, Amanda Brooke Webb and Samantha Dawn Webb, both at home; brothers, Stephen Webb of Charleston, and David Webb of Mabscott; a sister, Melissa Webb of Beckley; a niece, Brandi Flannery; and two nephews, Michael Flannery and Dakota Jones. A funeral liturgy will be held at 10 a.m. Saturday, July 8, at St. Francis de Sales Catholic Church with the Rev. John McGinnity officiating. Friends may call 6 to 9 p.m. today at Calfee Funeral Home, Beckley, where a scripture prayer service will be held at 8 p.m. led by the Rev. Mr. Don Wise. Following Robert’s wishes he will be cremated after the service.
Pallbearers will be Chris Hatfield, Kevin Bowling, Thurston Connard, Melissa Webb, Brian Jones and David Webb. In lieu of flowers the family requests memorial contributions be made to the Amanda and Samantha Webb Trust Fund, c/o Star Credit Union, 3871 Robert C. Byrd Drive, Beckley, WV 25801. An online guest book is available at www.calfeefh.com. Arrangements by Calfee Funeral Home, Posted Jul 07, 2006 01:14

19. Jaguar - Ask yourself if you could reason with someone aiming a 7.76mm round at you. The fact is, no matter how euphoric his eulogy is (have you ever seen a degrading eulogy?), the subject was firing an assault rifle into the air (presumably) illeagally (within 500 feet of residences). It's undeniably sad that he died, but you can't blame the officers for defending themselves. Posted Jul 07, 2006 03:57

20. Candice - I know no ones to blame for this tragedy, i know this was accidental...at least i hope. I am just grieving for his family. I am just shocked that he is gone. Its an uneasy feeling knowing that you were sitting next to that person talking to them or whatnot and then in a split second it all changes. Its just hard to let go of a family friend. i apoligize for my attitude towards those of you voicing your opinion! just pray for the family. they need all the prayers they can get. Posted Jul 07, 2006 05:04

21. The Scribe II - I don't understand when people say, "What the MEDIA says about this incident..." The MEDIA wasn't there, so they only report on what the SHERIFF said or what the FAMILY MEMBER or WITNESS or NEIGHBOR says. The MEDIA didn't say anything. The SHERIFF said the deputies needed counseling and said nothing about the family, not the MEDIA. Posted Jul 07, 2006 09:56

22. Ann777 - I would like to know why the aim taken was for a fatal shot. Where are the new stun guns with the electrodes that can be shot from a distance or the rubber bullet guns, or guns that shoot the little sand bags--I thought all of these would knock you off your feet but would not be fatal. I hate to think that a moment of bad judgment would end with my death? Police are suppose to protect at all times, I thought they were trained for situations such as this. Why was there car parked down the street? Why didn't they pull right up to the house and use the car as a shield? Maybe I watch too much TV--why didn't they get the number of one of neighbors that called 911 and find out the name of the man with the gun and get his phone number call his house and tell his wife we are on the way and if your husband still has that gun out when we get there it's over? There are a hundred different ways this could have been handled without death. Two shots is what the paper said--that's funny I thought the mafia's motto was 2 in the head make sure their dead NOT the police's. If this man had been a problem in the past and several call made per month for months on end--I might understand better. However, it's my understanding this man was a wonderful husband and an excellent father. No problems ever. Twenty years from now his little girls will think he was only a dream someone wonderful they thought up in their head--when the truth of the matter will be he was the best card of reality they'd ever been dealt and he was gunned down by the police. Way to go--now I can sleep better at night just knowing there's one less good father on the streets. Thanks! I would like to add to this that what I am trying to get across is that I feel it could have ended without his death--I lost my father when I was young--it's something you never get over NEVER. The police are brave I'll give them that--you won't see me applying for a position--I just wish for the family the daughters especially--that it had ended with daddy being fined/jailed instead of buried. This message has been edited. Last edited by: Ann777, July 07, 2006 10:43 Posted Jul 07, 2006 10:11

23. Both Sides Of The Fence - "quote: I guess if we reversed the scenerio a bit and the officers decided that this good man had a right to point a AK-47 at them, etc. etc. quote" You know what Kymorcas? Give it a break already! Tell me you were never intrigued by something you shouldn't have been! I bet you have! And I'm sick of you badmouthing Robert because of his choices! Posted Jul 08, 2006 05:22

24. infusion - Murdered? was he feloniously, willfully, maliciously, deliberately and unlawfully killed? Posted July 07, 2006 11:36

25. Alferd - quote: Originally posted by lifeisagift: To those of you who are using this tragic to argue when you do not know the details should be ashame. This family has lost someone they loved and to hear from others about this web site and how people who don't even know this wonderful family. How would you feel hearing what complete strangers are saying about your loved one that has been murdered Why add to their greif. I know this is a site that anyone can go to and voice their opinions, but why argue. Rob would not have wanted this. Those of us who knew him know he was a wonderful husband and father. Lets just remember him as so. I do not see why this is not a legitimate discussion on this forum. If my memory serves me correctly on the news, the family doesn’t plan to let this incident just slide under the rug? A lot of postings on these Forums, I believe we do out of boredom or just to entertain ourselves. I cannot help but believe that the posting of the rate increase on the WV Turnpike produced results. Whether you like it or not, Timothy McVeigh, sent a message to the government concerning Waco, and not too long after that, they found themselves in a similar Waco incident and the FBI, waited them out. In my early posting, when I did not call the police, I can promise you, I had a vested interest. When I got stopped by the burnt out tail light, things could have got ugly because I became too excited, but there was one deputy sheriff there, not like the other one who had enough sense to realize, when you are dealing with the elderly, and just not the elderly, they may just get a little confused and not act accordingly. I didn’t know you weren’t allowed to get out your automobile. Not too long ago, several summers ago, here in Raleigh County, the sheriffs’ department killed this poor, humble, child like man who was schizophrenic who got off his medication and got a gun in hand. Could they have not just wounded him? I don’t know, I wasn’t there. I have always been thankful, that this man who had a mind of a child died without gaining conscious. I am just wondering if some type of strategy needs to be put in place pertaining some of these calls? I am well aware that these men are put in harms way and know of a policeman who got killed in the line of duty. Someway, maybe a discussion of this thing is needed by the law enforcement officers and appropriate changes, IF PRUDENT, can be made. Whose knows, tomorrow may be our turn for such an incident to take place? The African Americans have fought for justices, let us be just as diligent. I cannot help but think that Ann777 words are of wisdom. Some of her thoughts need to be given great consideration. I would like to know why the aim taken was for a fatal shot. Where are the new stun guns with the electrodes that can be shot from a distance or the rubber bullet guns, or guns that shoot the little sand bags--I thought all of these would knock you off your feet but would not be fatal. I hate to think that a moment of bad judgment would end with my death? Police are suppose to protect at all times, I thought they were trained for situations such as this. Why was there car parked down the street? Why didn't they pull right up to the house and use the car as a shield? Maybe I watch too much TV--why didn't they get the number of one of neighbors that called 911 and find out the name of the man with the gun and get his phone number call his house and tell his wife we are on the way and if your husband still has that gun out when we get there it's over? There are a hundred different ways this could have been handled without death. Two shots is what the paper said--that's funny I thought the mafia's motto was 2 in the head make sure their dead NOT the police's. If this man had been a problem in the past and several call made per month for months on end--I might understand better. However, it's my understanding this man was a wonderful husband and an excellent father. No problems ever. Twenty years from now his little girls will think he was only a dream someone wonderful they thought up in their head--when the truth of the matter will be he was the best card of reality they'd ever been dealt and he was gunned down by the police. Way to go--now I can sleep better at night just knowing there's one less good father on the streets. Thanks! Posted Jul 07, 2006 11:40

26. Floyd - shame here. What I have seen so far from the media and posts here (highly subjective) is that someone pointed an assault weapon at police officers who reacted as expected. As far as what kind of person the deceased was, I have no clue other than what has been posted here. I'm not debating that point. What I do debate is who was wrong in this incidence and some of the comments being made here. If you point a weapon at a police officer, you are inviting your own harm. Did he do it intentionally or accidentally? I don't know. Neither do the police officers. They just reacted as trained. As for the police officers car being used as a shield and instead being parked down the street, would you rush blindly into a reported gunfire situation with siren blaring and lights flashing or would you try to enter quietly and access the situation first? I would do the latter. Nonfatal shot? Can you tell me how you do that and ensure the officers' safety? BTW, what is a deliberate nonfatal shot? Never heard of one. In the end, a family suffers due to a husband and father who made a mistake. Do I feel sorry for the family? Yes. Do I feel sorry for the police officers and their family? Yes. However, feeling sorry isn't going to change the facts. I'm sure there will be an investigation into this and more information may become available. Until it does, we can really say nothing more. In the meantime, those who can need to show sympathy to the family and the police officers. I'm sure they grieve as well. Posted Jul 07, 2006 11:49

27. Jeep Girl - Cut wvgal some slack! i understand what you are saying. kymorcas, have a little compassion for his 3 and 5 year old daughters and his wife, after all they were not outside with an AK 47 not to mention to young to understand where daddy has gone. I understand what you are trying to say wvgal, there is more than ONE victim in ANY crime. Posted Jul 07, 2006 23:38

28. Alferd - Friend will be missed because of his help. July 4, 2006, I lost a good friend, Rob Webb — but I was not the only one. Rob helped so many people in so many different ways and many who probably don’t even know he was the one who helped them because being anonymous was the way he preferred it. Rob was very active in his church, St. Francis de Sales, whether it was helping with the children’s activities, fundraisers for the annual summer trip which he helped to chaperone with his wife, Mary. His contribution to Make a Difference Day was usually a three-day event, one day to line up all the jobs, then a day to pick materials (which he purchased if the person needing work could not), and then a day to do the jobs. Our church’s annual Parish Festival will be here July 15 and Rob will be missed terribly, because he would spend one day putting up all the booths and after helping all day Saturday, spending Saturday night and Sunday morning taking down the booths and storing them for the next year. He helped clean up after numerous athletic events at Hollywood Elementary, where the apples of his eyes, Amanda and Samantha, attended school. Rob was a man of many seasons, be it winter — helping remove snow from the church sidewalks, being the Easter Bunny, fishing (Oh, how he loved to fish!), or hayrides in the fall. He would help a friend do any job, be it large or small. We will all miss his smile and that long ponytail blowing in the wind. Rob will be missed by his wife and daughters and his many friends. Kandy Kozar Beckley Posted Jul 07, 2006 23:46

29. kymorcas - quote: Originally posted by Jeep Girl: Cut wvgal some slack! i understand what you are saying. kymorcas, have a little compassion for his 3 and 5 year old daughters and his wife, after all they were not outside with an AK 47 not to mention to young to understand where daddy has gone. I understand what you are trying to say wvgal, there is more than ONE victim in ANY crime. quote: Originally posted by kymorcas: How old are you? Do you know what an AK-47 is? This is not the case of a drunken redneck with his shotgun, shooting in the air to celebrate the 4th of July. An AK-47 is an assault rifle and he aimed it at the police officers. As far as "what goes up must come down"; I learned that years ago in one of my first Science classes as a child.
I guess if we reversed the scenario a bit and the officers decided that this good man had a right to point a AK-47 at them and decided they did not need to defend themselves and he blew them away instead; it would be easier to explain to their families that Mr. Webb was really a good man having a bad day. NOT
What does a man with two babies need with an AK-47 anyhow??? Posted Jul 08, 2006 00:02

30. Both Sides of the Fence - "quote: I guess if we reversed the scenerio a bit and the officers decided that this good man had a right to point a AK-47 at them, etc. etc. quote"
You know what Kymorcas? Give it a break already! Tell me you were never intrigued by something you shouldn't have been! I bet you have! And I'm sick of you badmouthing Robert because of his choices! Posted Jul 08, 2006 05:22

31. Both Sides of the Fence - Unless you personally knew Robert Webb, you should keep your mouth shut about the kind of man he was! Just READ his obituary you idiot! He WAS NOT a man on a mission to kill! He just celebrated his birthday that week, was outside having some fun for the hoilday, it got a bit out of hand, a neighbor complained, and now Robert is gone! I hope whomever the neighbor is that made that 911 call, can live with themself knowing that Robert is DEAD because of them making that call! Knowing that they took a husband away from a wonderful woman; and a daddy away fom two little girls that adored him. I don't think anyone will EVER know the real truth about what happened that night - whether the officers were right or WRONG or how they handled the situation. They are only going to tell the media and citizens what they want them to hear! They have to keep themselves looking like the "Heroes!" Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying what Robert did was right. He should have not been shooting that kind of weapon in his yard or anywhere else for that matter. But honestly, in my heart, I don't think those officers gave Robert a fair chance to "lay down his weapon" like the papers say they did. I think, they saw a man with a gun and they FIRED! Robert was and his family are good, decent, church goers, that give 100% back to their commuity. He was involved with his church, and his life evolved around his wife and adored his daughters! Robert wasn't trying to harm anyone that night, he was just trying to get a little "thrill" if you may. I hope he had the biggest "RUSH" he ever had that night, because thanks to your wonderful LAW ABIDING OFFICERS, it was his last! Give the family a break already! Do you think for one minute that they are happy about what happened to Robert? Don't you think that if his wife knew what he was up to that she wouldn't have tried to stop him before it was too late? Instead, tonight she had to say "good-bye" to a man that she loved dearly and has spent a good part of her life with. And his two little girls had to say "good bye" to their daddy! They will never get the chance to have him watch them grow up, get married and have a family of their own. Nice! Huh! It's heartbreaking to know that there are skum bags out there on the streets that get away with murder day in and day out - and usually never get caught. Robert makes ONE mistake - just ONE! And he pays a deadly price for it! I hope those of you that have voiced your opinions here and feel the way you do about gun control and enforcing the law - are happy with the way a good man's life has been taken and wasted! And I surely KNOW, by the way you all talk, that you are ALL the very BEST LAW ABIDING CITIZENS that West Virginia has! The ones who have NEVER made a MISTAKE in your LIFETIME! And of course, we all know, you NEVER carry or USE anything against the law in West Virgiia! Oh NO, not you "PERFECT" people out there! The bottom line is: A good woman is now left totally alone, for the rest of her life, to raise those two darling little girls because of the drastic steps taken by those officers on duty that night. It probably could have been handled without taking the life of a good man! My heart and prayers go out to Robert's wife and daughters. Saying "GOODBYE" to your husband and daddy is the most difficult thing you will ever feel like you have to do. Stay strong, keep your faith, and remember, we are all here for you! God and Robert bless, protect, and watch over you all! We Love You! Your Family In NJ xo xo xo Posted Jul 08, 2006 05:47

32. coalbucket - I think Both Sides of the Fence pretty much said it all in her last post. Let it go and give the family a break, the last thing they need is a bunch of wanna be detectives in their life at this time. Bucket Posted Jul 08, 2006 09:49

33. Alferd - Friday, by chance, I happen to see a friend who I knew who was in the same profession of Robert Webb and asked him, “Did he know him?” He did and spoke highly of him. He also said, and I am reluctant to write this because I am not sure of this statement, that the deputies’ sheriffs park their vehicle at some distances from the house and then walk to the house. The time this was taking place may have been around 1:00 a.m.? You are in your yard, it is dark, and all at once you hear.” PUT YOUR HANDS UP THIS IS THE POLICE.” Wouldn’t the element of surprise be enough to blow your mind and whether you believed it was the sheriff or not and how you would react, one could only speculate? Strangely enough within minutes after I got home, the doorbell rang and there stood a friend who lives in another state and he with his wife, visit the area around every Fourth of July. This friend happens to be an ex-deputy sheriff in his state, and still is in the law enforcement business in a much more crucial capacity. I mentioned to him about this event and the gun Robert was shooting did not seem to cause him problems. Of course he gave no opinion of the incident, but he did say, too many young cops today are watching “COPS” on television and foolishly are trying to imitate them. He said several weeks ago the police stopped him and for what reason I did not ask. But he said the young policemen came at him screaming and ranting. He said he just extended his arm out of the window, showing his badge in the palm of his hand and the policemen settled down. I asked him, “Are you trained to ‘shoot and kill’?” And his reply was, “Yes, we have the license to kill, and though I had that opportunity, I did not use it. You have to use common sense.” Reflecting of my encounters with the law enforcement, all for speeding, for I did travel greatly. Why in five incidents when the WV State Police stopped me, there just wasn’t any problem. They treated you with calmness and you reacted as such. But let a deputy sheriff or a city policemen stop you, and all hell breaks loose. And you will react accordingly. I know in one incident when I got stopped by a city policemen and fine, I heard those sirens and thought to myself, something bad must have happen. Little did I realize, I creeping at no more then five miles an hour was his intended victim. He came at my car screaming and shouting and I had my elderly mother with me and yes, I did give him some back talk. I demanded to know who he was and before this thing finally played out in court, I called the state police, and the sign they used to harass people was changed. I have another friend, and he is a reputable man and he was stopped by the city police, and the police came at him shouting and screaming, and he said he told him to settle down or he was going to whip him. Later, he did report his displeasure in what happened to the city. All I am saying and have said in earlier posting: We have the man in another area who the police knew, DEAD, we have the girl who called for help for her father, DEAD, we have the child like schizophrenic, DEAD, We have Robert Webb, DEAD. Isn’t it possible that all calls should not be pursued with the thinking ”SHOOT TO KILL,” but used it as the last option? To me, I would like to see that Robert Webb did not die in vain. Somewhere, somehow an investigation of how all this occurred concerning Mr. Webb’s death needs to take place and see if other options were available. And changes when making calls, if possible, be in another manner. I remember as a child on Fourth of July, my father would take the gun and shoot it to entertain us children. ARE YOU GOING TO KILL HIM NEXT? Yes, everything that goes up, goes down and it has for many years. MUST A MAN DIE ON ACCOUNT OF THAT? It’s the action, not the fruit of the action that’s important. You have to do the right thing...You may never know what results come from your action. But if you do nothing, there will be no results. (Gandhi) Posted Jul 08, 2006 10:23

34. sickpup - Let's see some toxicology results... was the guy drunk or juiced up on something? That would certainly explain things. As for his firearm of choice, semi-automatic AK-47's are readily available on the market, and assuming he obtained it legally he was certainly within his rights to have one. Did he normally walk around the neighborhood on the 4th of July, shooting his guns? Or was this a spur of the moment decision on his part? Should be interesting to see how things play out. Posted Jul 08, 2006 17:17

35. whisper - While I certainly feel for the Webb family and their loss I also feel for the officers who Mr. Webb put in that critical situation. I have small children and would not feel safe for anyone in my neighborhood to be discharging a firearm into the air, I don't blame anyone for calling the police, had a bullet from his weapon gone astray he could have easily killed someone as well. Had it been your father, brother, husband, etc. that Mr. Webb had turned the gun on, you may not be so quick to judge. Officers have families just like you and I whom they hope to go home to after work as well, no one may ever be able to explain why Mr. Webb did not drop the weapon or why he turned around on the officers with it pointing at them, but the fact is he did and surely we all realize that when you point a loaded weapon, one especially that you have been discharging already that there can and were serious consequences. How were the officers to know he would not fire the weapon AGAIN. The officer's had to make a choice, one that fortunately allowed them to go home to their families. Posted Jul 09, 2006 08:23

36. Linda Cox - i understand completely what candice is talking about i knew Rob also, and i also know that he would have never hurt a soul...It is a very sad situation for everyone close to Rob and his family. I understand what cops have to do to protect thereselves but when the facts come out i think everyone will be shocked. My heart goes out to everyone that was involved. And if we don't know that facts then we should just wait to say anything. How do you know he had a ak-47? How do you know he actually pointed the guy at the officers? We don't!!!! Posted Jul 09, 2006 13:44

37. whisper - Originally the family did not deny that Mr. Webb had an AK-47, was discharging it, and had pointed it at the responding officers, (even if it had not been an AK-47 a firearm is considered a lethal weapon)....I copied this from the original article, if you dispute it you should get the family members contact information from the press.....According to the Associated Press, friends and family members told a local television station that Webb was a good man who was firing the gun in celebration of the July Fourth holiday. They said he probably didn’t hear the officers clearly and spun around to see what the commotion was, not meaning to point the gun at anyone.....There is a heck of a lot of difference between NOT MEANING to point the gun and DID NOT point the gun....While I truly empathize with Mr. Webb's family, the fact is he was not an innocent victim, he made a poor choice and showed a considerable lack of judgement that had fatal consequences. Surely as adults we all realize that good or bad there are consequences to be had for our choices/actions. Mr. Webb put his community and the responding officers at risk when he chose to discharge that weapon. Was anyone at his residence considering the horrific results a stray bullet may have had? One could have easily gone through someones house window or God forbid hit a child playing outside. I lived in that area for almost 30-years and know Mr. Webb wasn't out in the wilderness but a residential area, bullets travel and have no regards for property lines. He was not protecting his life or property, he was discharging a lethal weapon for the pure pleasure of it and all the while putting the life and property of his neighbors at risk. If you are a law enforcement officer, or anyone for that matter, looking down the barrel of another persons gun are you going to stop and ask the family about their moral character before reacting...I highly doubt it...My thoughts are with Mr. Webb's family and the responding law enforcement officers. I wish them all well with their emotional recovery. This message has been edited. Last edited by: whisper, July 10, 2006 05:15 Posted Jul 09, 2006 17:49

38. Jaquar - Good posts, whisper. I agree. Even the left-wing Associated Press, (who is anti-gun and anti-military and anti-police) agrees that Mr. Webb undeniably aimed the assault rifle at the officers. That single rifle outgunned both our deputy's side-arms. Unless you're placed in that situation, it's unfair to criticize the officer's response. Posted Jul 10, 2006 02:39

39. Alferd - I am surprised that this event made it on the Associate Press! Talking to someone who is definitely affiliated with the Catholic Church he attended, she said he did not drop the rifle as they ask, but quicky spun around with the rifle being on his shoulder.
Let’s face it, it was a sequence of events that unfolded that turned into a tragedy, and I am sure if you could talk to all parties involved, the person who made the phone call, Mr. Webb, and the deputy sheriffs, all would tell their tale as they perceived it and rightfully so, all would be faultless. Tragedies happen and I have a feeling in this case it did, and would imagine if foresight was as good as hindsight, all would have made sure, this scenario would have played out differently. This message has been edited. Last edited by: Alferd, July 10, 2006 11:23 Posted Jul 10, 2006 08:57

40. gman121 - I didn't know Robert Webb. I'm sorry for his family and also for the police officers who were left with no choice. Some of the statements posted here are ridiculous. Regardless of whether or not Mr. Webb was a good man has NO bearing for the danger he put his neighbors in or the police officers for that matter. We charge the police with protecting us; they don't have the option to do a background check on people in the process of "celebrating" birthdays or the 4th of July when an AK-47 is being leveled toward you. They can't call “time-out” to go get a stun-gun or mace, nor do you if you are intelligent person, bring such devices against a military rifle. They can't nor should they wait to see if he was really going to shoot them or not because he is “normally” a good guy. To blame the neighbor who called the police or the police for protecting themselves is totally ridiculous. Robert Webb made a series of poor choices; nobody is to blame other than him. I'm quite sure the officers would rather he had dropped the rifle. Put yourself in their shoes. Get real. Posted Jul 10, 2006 12:01

41. What are they up to now? - quote: Originally posted by What are they up to now?: There is no misunderstanding what a gun/rifle or pistol is used for. Death. Plain and simple. Its not a toy. It is a weapon. The mere pointing a gun at life indicates the intent wether it is a animal or human. The use of firearms are regulated by law which is a representative of the peoples belief in the safe use of firearms. Tell me how anyone can defend the use of a firearm within 500 feet of homes when the law specifically names that footage. If you are using a rifle in violation of the law...expect to be punished. Someone obviously felt the need for law enforcement or the call would not have been made. Rightfully so. I am happy that the men and women of the sherriffs department are defending not only themselves but also the community. Good job deputies. Keep up the good work. There are too many rogue persons breaking the laws to get personal with the intent. Posted Jul 10, 2006 12:12

42. RB 2281 - While Rob should not have been firing an Ak-47 that day, that point still does not justify his death. Why he was not just setting off fireworks we will never know because he is not here for us to ask. Why would the cops shoot to kill without being fired on first? There have been previous instances in which cops have been put into a situation like this and all parties walked away. I have been close friends with several cops over a long period of time and yes they have been staring down the barrel of a gun. Yes they had families too and yes all parties walked away alive. Why didn’t these cops use other means available to them? So much about this does not add up. Posted Jul 10, 2006 13:52

43. RB 2281 - One more thing....an AK-47 is not a firearm that must be shouldered to fire, so if he was really wanting to kill the cops, he didnt have to shoulder it to shoot them. Did they maybe panic and shoot too early? Posted Jul 10, 2006 14:23

44. Floyd - How long do you have to wait when a deadly weapon is aimed at you? One second? 3 seconds? By that time, you might be dead. Think about it. Posted Jul 11, 2006 02:31

45. whisper - It is my assumption that "other means available" would be referring to bean bag guns, taser's, or pepper spray. While in the correct situation I am sure these are effective and preferred methods, Mr. Webb was not running from the officers, engaging in a physical altercation where no weapon was involved, nor coming at them from a distance with a knife. I find the idea that law enforcement officers would be expected to respond to a man discharging an AK-47 assault rifle, and no less (intentional or not) turned it on them, with one of the above mentioned (other means) highly irrational. I found the following on the net....The AK-47 weighs 4,300g and has a rate of fire of 600 rounds/min. The rifle will accept most synthetic and metal magazines, generally 30 rounds in capacity. The rifles effective killing range is 1,500 meters(4921.26 feet), and is generally not used for more than 300 meters(984.25 feet). Cyclic rate of fire 600 rds/min Practical rate of fire, single shots 90-100 rds/min;bursts 400 rds/min.... This was by no means a BB Gun Mr. Webb was pointing at the officer's. In addition, when Mr. Webb CHOSE to pick up that weapon and CHOSE to discharge it, he put everyone within 1,500 meters of his home in immediate and life-threatening danger. Regardless of whether or not he would ever intentionally harm anyone, the fact is HIS ACTIONS that night put many, many innocent and unaware people in danger. When he turned the weapon on the officers, he put their lives in danger...sometimes when you tempt fate....you lose! I believe that the officers were well within the right to defend not only their lives, but those of the surrounding community. Posted Jul 11, 2006 03:12

46. RB2281 - Again, there are things about the officers’ actions that does not make sense. I have to agree with Alfred’s post on 7/8. Why didn’t the cops pull into his driveway with their blues on instead of walking up to his house after parking at a distance? Why did they walk to the back of his house instead of going to the front? Yes he may have been discharging a firearm in an unsafe manner in celebration but if they would have pulled into his driveway with the lights on maybe he would not have faced them with a firearm in his hands. Yes some people would use this as an opportunity to position for a better shot on the police but still, this would have been a sure way of making sure he knew who was coming up on him. If someone came up on me in the dark and said “Police, drop your weapon” when I’m on my own property, I would most likely turn and face them. I have no beef with the police. I have no reason to shoot the cops but I would not quickly stand down because I would be startled by two figures coming up on me. Yes I would probably raise my weapon in their direction because you do not know for sure it would be a cop that just yelled at you. Now on the other side, if a cop did a better job of identifying themselves, I would know plenty well that I should put the gun down when told do so. Think about it. Would that mean that I should die just because they didn’t do a better job of identifying themselves? I understand that if confronted with a hostile person in possession of a firearm you must act but I do seriously believe that the police may have made a series of bad decisions that caused the situation to end in the manner it did. This wasn’t something that happened at 1 p.m. in the daylight, it was at night…in the dark. Is it possible that Robb did not know for sure it was the cops or the fact that it could have been a friend playing a dangerous joke? We don’t have that answer so let’s not make him out to be a maniac like some on here are doing so. Take a breath and look the situation from all sides. Yes we look to the police to keep the community safe but they need to do a good job to prevent the loss of life and only use deadly force as an absolute last resort. Posted Jul 11, 2006 16:39

47. Floyd - Here's where the first mistake was made. Without it, there would be no other problems with which to clog this forum. He was outside at night discharging a firearm in an area where according to some it is illegal to do so. Without his action there, nothing else occurs. Posted Jul 11, 2006 18:54

48. Both Sides Of The Fence - For God's sake! Would you people give it a rest already! Let this poor man rest in peace and let the family grieve over the loss of their loved one! I am sure, there is not a single one of you out there, that have NEVER made a bad choice in your life! Isn't it enough that a man's life was lost over something like this! Not to mention how his wife feels reading these posts and how his little girls will feel as they grow up without their daddy! Let the investigation conclude before anyone starts pointing fingers! Posted July 11, 2006 19:19

49. whisper - While I would agree that in everyone's lifetime they have or will make some bad choices, it is most likely very few will involve AK-47 assault rifles. In addition, Mr. Webb's family is not the only one that has access to this forum. Keeping that in mind, the person that called 911 probably read the horrendous comment you (both sides of the fence) made about him/her and the officers and their families have most likely read everything that's been said about them. Do you believe they are overjoyed with all of the comments and accusations? Or do their feelings not count? If it is wrong to express an opinion in regards to Mr. Webb's accountability for his actions, it is equally wrong to express an opinion about the caller and the officers reactions. This message has been edited. Last edited by: whisper, July 12, 2006 00:17 Posted July 11, 2006 19:19

50. Floyd - quote: Let the investigation conclude before anyone starts pointing fingers! That's what I said in my first post to this thread. I suggest you follow suit. Posted July 12, 2006 02:31 July 12, 2006 02:31